Scandal limits [Archive] - Viva Ponata

Acacia

12-08-2009, 09:49 PM

Watching the latest scandals i think the new time restriction on scandals doesnt bring what it should.

I think it is not bad to have a time limit on scandals but the limit until reset gives an even bigger advantage to the attacking party. They had the element of surprise and the possibility to keep the players that couldnt join in the scandal pregnant or in hospital.
The defending party had to wait till after the reset to stab the non playing members so they can attack them. That was a strategic part of a scandal, Now most of the strategy is gone and the attacking party has an advantage that cannot be overturned within the scandal. Now the defending party cannot have a real opportunity to fight back.

I would suggest to limit the scandal to a longer period.. say 3 or 4 days.

The other issue a large number of players in both studios inactive during a scandal is not solved with the new rules. Maybe it can be solved by having shorter hospital times during scandals for kidnaps and stealths. Hospital times from 6 - 10 hours last a quarter to almost half of the total scandal time.
Another improvement would be to allow multiple stealths on a person during scandals. These changes would reduce the advantage of the attacking team.

And will make the scandal more interactive. Maybe it could even give the advantage back to the larger studios.

Just some thoughts from me, let me know what you think.

Hiro1

12-08-2009, 11:26 PM

I agree with you that the timelimit on scandals doesn't solve the core issue. That issue being, people in scandalous studios not wanting to be in a scandal.

I think infact scandals need to be more brutal than they are. So that people would have to seriously consider the benefits of joining one.

I would propose removing the timelimit on scandals, and instead, Affect the hospital time of the victims.

However instead of just shortening the time incapcitated, I would impliment a rule that if your studio is in a scandal, and you get put in the hospital, after 60 minutes you'll be transfered to the jail to serve out the rest of your time there. It would be akin to criminals getting medical treatment first, and then being sent to jail after they're in stable condition.

This allows the victims to still have at least an hour of safety after Stealth Attacks and KnTs, but also allows the attacking studio to buy them out of jail to attack them again afterwards, allowing for more damage to be dealt to the studio fame. And buying someone out of jail with 400+ minutes remaining in their sentence isn't cheap either!

The only thing I could see this possibly having an unintended side-affect with is, getting put into repeated comas by your partner. But even then, that requires your partner to actively be having sex with you while in a scandal. :p

IMO Scandals should be left for the hardcore in this game, who want to be the best of the best.

Partial Credit to: xxAshleyxx for helping to inspire this idea. :D

Ross

12-09-2009, 03:09 PM

kestrel1940

12-09-2009, 03:37 PM

Ok, thx for the feedback. You're right about the issue being people not wanting to fight, gold diggers, they prefer to flame the newspaper/confessional every single time there's a scandal in progress.

Another issue is abusing cheap tactics such as camping in hospital, hiding behind pregnancy or KnT. I'm not against these tactics they are part of a strategy, if used properly, but when you see 3-4 people fighting in 54 flame-camping is pure bullshit. However I can not force the players to play the way I want, if they enjoy these tactics let it be, but, some adjustments should be done in order to cut down on that shit.

Here is the proposed list of changes for the next update:

- Removed time limit for scandals. (due to negative feedback)
- Adjusted price for sabotages. (new level based formula).
- Adjusted price & hospital time for KnT. (shorter time, higher price).
- Adjusted price for stealth items (bang phone, stiletto). (more expensive - cheaper).
- Adjusted hospital time for stealth items (bang phone, stiletto). (shorter, much shorter)
- Added the ability to perform unlimited stealth attacks during scandal.
- Changed fame gains: slap - 2, rob - 4, rape - 6, demoralize - 10 (which currently is slap -1, rob -2, rape -3, demor -1).
*- Added automatic abortion after 9 days of pregnancy. (for all - not scandal related).

With this stuff on getting hosped on purpose (to camp/hide) will cost a lot compared to meding out after a rob (actually $750 max). To sum it up. Cheap tactics gonna be expensive.

Feel free to comment.

What if a random scandal was added as well? After a certain time frame the game choices 2 scandalous studios to attack each other? If studio/player A keeps attacking player B and player B is in a studio allied with Studio C, then maybe Studio C would eventually honor that alliance and scandal studio A.

How about adding an actual alliance to where when a studio in alliance with another one is automatically put into the scandal when attacks start? If you have an alliance, then you should honor that and go to war when your ally does. Maybe studios can share a little bit of profit from movies as well when in an alliance and have this money go to the vault or maybe earn fame levels from each other, of course at a greatly reduced rate but still some kind of benefit.

xxAshleyxx

12-09-2009, 03:55 PM

Thanks for some of the credit Hiro :D And I agree with everything you said.

I like that you're making it more expensive to camp out in the hospital, but regardless of the price, people are still going to do it, but I do think it'll help some.

Is there a way to take the member limit off being able to declare scandals? I don't think it's fair that a studio can declare a scandal on a studio with 5 members, but that same studio can't declare a scandal on anyone.

Random scandals are a bad idea, imho. There's no need for it.

Psyche

12-09-2009, 04:02 PM

Acacia

12-09-2009, 04:21 PM

Thanks for the positive response Ross, Hiro, Ashley :)

I think the proposed changes would be an improvement.
The unlimited stealths during scandal is good to counter option for the defending party.

I am not sure that unlimited scandal will be the solution. But maybe you could combine that with an option for the secretary to surrender or accept surrender. During long scandals Presidents can get away for some time.

However I agree with Ashley that even if the prices for hosp time go up it will still be used as a tactic (on both sides).

I am not in favor of 5 member studios starting scandals Ashley, they are too easy to defend and it will promote even more small studios. Where the new changes could lead to having larger scandalous studios because in longer scandals you would need active members around the clock.

Psyche

12-09-2009, 04:39 PM

I agree 10 is a good minimum, to give both sides a few targets to attack.
As for fame during scandals maybe a sliding scale like the exp scale be used.
Attack someone much much lower than you will only give 0 or 1 fame whatever the option, but attacking people in your target limit and above gives full fame points.
This will give the lower level newer studio members/player a chance to fight back against people in their range and not be scared of the elite always keeping them in hospital and will also stop them camping in hospital with no way out. High levels fight high level and lower level fight lower level players.

jessiebelle

12-09-2009, 04:48 PM

I like all the changes but I would like to see the minimum number of members to be raised to 25. Make it so a studio is peaceful unless it has 25 members in it and then that studio can pay to change over to scandalous. This would keep the small elitist groups from having a 10 member studio which they can then terrorize other studios with. Like Acacia said its to easy to defend a small studio.

If everyone needs to have 25 members it would not only make the fights more brutal but the costs of scandaling would be higher as well which would make those in scandalous studios think more about what their strategy would be instead of just attacking with no real thought behind it.

I also like the sliding scale idea that Psyche proposed over the flat rate changes proposed.

xxAshleyxx

12-09-2009, 05:29 PM

i_am_kendy

12-09-2009, 06:17 PM

a scandal is a scandal,brutal or otherwise
it's just part of this game

this game is design that all players need to gain 140fames if they want to do their achievements

this game is design that nobody knows who is no.1. and wat drives him/her

my concern is for those weaker players who wants to a fair chance to do their achievement but ends up with fame -200. how should they play this game?

so far,i observe strong players with fame of even 600+,keep attacking and gaining more fame at the expense of weaker players.not giving others a chance of survival. mayb we shld find a way to detach studio n personal fame.

jessiebelle

12-09-2009, 08:34 PM

I think it's needs to be evened out some way.
Yes, I'm in a small studio. But how is it fair that people can declare on us, which I have no problem with, but we can't declare on them? I just want to know is how that is fair?

I'm editing in response to Jessiebelle. I don't think that the limit should be changed to how your studio can be scandalous...you can decide whether you want to be able to defend yourself or make money. Do you think I make a lot of money being in a studio with 3 people? Shit no, I don't. The more members you have, the more money you make. It should be a choice of whether people want to be able to defend themselves or make money. Limits shouldn't be set. It just needs to be fair as far as who can start scandals and who can't. Right now, it's not.

Okay so leave things the same for how to make a studio scandalous. Change the needed members from 10 to 25 and make it so when in a scandal people can't be kidnapped or made pregnant and if they were prior to the scandal then when the scandal starts they are out of the hospital and the pregnancy is aborted. This would get rid of all the hiding.

Then you won't see a studio with 2 or 3 really strong players attacking another studio while the rest of the studio is pregnant and playing their game with a few minor setbacks. I say make the needed members to 25 because then a scandal becomes exciting and challenging. Heck in VPv1 all the top studios had 25 members in them and every move that was made was well thought out instead of the bullshit little studios with super large egos we have in place here in VP v2.

Yes I was around in v1 and I did manage to have a studio that was in the top 10 of the HOF and it was scandalous. I will be the first to admit that I was constantly worried that one fo the bigger studios would attack us and was actually planning on attacking one of the bigger studios when the site was hacked and we all know that story. But none of those bigger studios were made up of only 10 members and when a scandal broke out it was an exciting fight on both sides of the fence.

Heck I was on the losing side of many a scandal with Divine or any of the other names it went by and I spent a few days in the hospital but it wasn't because I was hiding, no, it was because I was trying to fight back and every time I would take some fame from them I would lose it when one of them would put me back in the hospital. But that drove me to become stronger in the game heck I made it to become a top 50 player in pad in v1 and surprised a lot of older members when I got my revenge against them from when they kept me in the hospital during scandals and told me I would never be strong enough to fight back.

But now here in v1 we have all of 15 scandalous studios and 13 of them have less then 15 members and most have 10 or less. I don't remember what the studio counts were in v1 but I can tell you that there were at least 10 in the top 20 of the HOF and all of them but one had more then 20 members.

Hell I'd be happy if the number needed to start a scandal was 20. But these little studios picking fights we have in my opinion are boring because like I said earlier usually you see that half the studio is pregnant or kidnapped so it become 4 or 5 on however many the other studio has.

And while I am venting let me say that I actually prefer v2 to v1 because it is more of a challenge to get ahead. I can't tell you how many times I would see someone join the game and in a few weeks have a better house and better weapons then most because they knew someone who had been playing for a while. I like the closed economy and I like the limit in gifting as well as the hidden money so robs are blind and sometime syou get lucky and sometimes you don't.

TheRadarReborn

12-09-2009, 10:01 PM

I like all your proposed changes Ross, I do think one more thing needs to be in there though. The three attack limit should be removed for scandals as well. Can be exceedingly restrictive.

The reality is, someone could be level 80 and have top 5 PAD in the game, level really does not make any difference to your ability to train anymore, in V1 it did, but not in V2. I do think it is a slightly outmoded concept to be honest.

Natasliah

12-10-2009, 01:17 AM

What I would also like to see is a limit to hiding in high level cities during a scandal.
I propose that during a scandal flying to Girlvana (lvl150) and above be removed from flight destination. So if you fight in a scandal you can not hid in these high level cities.
I chose this be the limit as Bogata (lvl100) has weed and tampax/redbull needed during a scandal.

better change to that would be to set a time limit on fights, you should be able to be in which city you choce to but its quite a chicken act to open a fight windown fly down to a city make a fast attack and then fly back to a city where no one can reach you.

I agree 10 is a good minimum, to give both sides a few targets to attack.
As for fame during scandals maybe a sliding scale like the exp scale be used.
Attack someone much much lower than you will only give 0 or 1 fame whatever the option, but attacking people in your target limit and above gives full fame points.
This will give the lower level newer studio members/player a chance to fight back against people in their range and not be scared of the elite always keeping them in hospital and will also stop them camping in hospital with no way out. High levels fight high level and lower level fight lower level players.

no!, not an other rule which makes it pointless to level, its allready an dissadvantage to level now that you only have 3 attacks on anyone thats below your level /1.35 what point is it to level to inferno and not be able to attack anyone more then 3 times, and now you wont even get any fame when you beat someone in a scandal? if someone wish they could stay level 1 and still be #1 PAD its fair that they can beat a level 1000 unlimited times then when they can only make 3 attacks back?

I think it's needs to be evened out some way.
Yes, I'm in a small studio. But how is it fair that people can declare on us, which I have no problem with, but we can't declare on them? I just want to know is how that is fair?

I'm editing in response to Jessiebelle. I don't think that the limit should be changed to how your studio can be scandalous...you can decide whether you want to be able to defend yourself or make money. Do you think I make a lot of money being in a studio with 3 people? Shit no, I don't. The more members you have, the more money you make. It should be a choice of whether people want to be able to defend themselves or make money. Limits shouldn't be set. It just needs to be fair as far as who can start scandals and who can't. Right now, it's not.

yes you do earn more money in a smaller studio then a bigger one, you have less members to share your money with, you think its fair of you being in a small scandalous studio where you earn dubble the money then a peaceful one but no one gets to attack you cuz your not 10+ members?
its kinda not fair of you to be able to be so few the once attacking you have the disadvantage of the low numbers of targets in your studio which you have atleast 3 times and many as they have.

i also agree on raising the numbers of a scandalous studio to be scandalous 10 is quite low its not much fighting but when the limit is 10 you kinda want to keep your members few,

xxAshleyxx

12-10-2009, 01:36 AM

I wasn't asking to NOT be scandaled, Natasliah.
What I was saying is that it's not fair that people can declare a scandal on us, but we can't declare a scandal on anyone else because we don't have ten members.

And Jessie, don't categorize all small studios into the same category that you just put Frenchcut in because that's who you're referring too. You know as well as I do that my studio isn't like that.

I don't think size matters at all. If we can eliminate camping out in the hospital completely, it'll be a much different scenario. Every studio here, even the scandalous ones, have weak players. If there's no camping, it'll be more of a fair fight, not having all of the studio members in the hospital except like 3.

No matter what Ross decides to do, he isn't going to be able to make everyone happy. Once he hears all the input, he'll ultimately decide what he thinks is the best thing to do.

Acacia

12-10-2009, 02:33 AM

The 3 attack limit is there mainly to prevent top players to kill all the noobs with their power basically preventing them to play normally.
For strong players with lower levels it is an unfair advantage especially since the rule was introduced when some people already gained a lot of levels.

Maybe it can be changed to the higher player is limited to 3 net attacks; i.e. if the lower player hits him 2 times the high player can have a maximum of 5 attacks.

And to Jessie if the proposed changes are in place i am sure the studios will grow again, at the moment it is stupid to have a scandalous studio with more than 12 people because its impossible to defend. If the defense is not so easy anymore the balance would switch to the higher money and fame gain in a larger studio.

Hiro1

12-10-2009, 02:51 AM

Regarding studio sizes for scandals...

I actualy wouldn't mind seeing even smaller sizes, like 5 member studios that can go around starting scandals and terrorizing other studios.

Studio size has nothing to do with how much a studio earns per movie. It's Based on the Level of the Players who JOIN the movie, and then mulitplier bonuses are given for AVN's and being Scandalous.

--

The disadvantage to being in a smaller studio is really only limited to how much fame your studio can earn from a movie. Everything else depends on the actions of the studio members.

The core problem with scandals, is the availabity of viable targets to earn fame off of. This is one of the reasons that 10 player studios are more attractive to be in for scandals vs larger 25 player studios. In this case smaller numbers offer more protection for the studio during a scandal, even though larger numbers offer more studio fame during times of peace.

This is why I'm more inclined to make scandals more brutal, to keep people out of scandalous studios who just want to make a quick buck, and really aren't prepared to go to battle with anyone.

Sure people could make a large 25 player studio with the best fighters in the game they can find. But I think more intimate studios where coordination and comradery are more prevelant is also an attractive option for people.

--

Coming back to the issue of people hiding in the hospital and behind pregnancy during scandals... that is the main reason people dislike scandals. Not just that their opponants are in the hospital unable to be attacked, but that their weaker members have to handicap themselves as well from playing the game so the studio doesn't lose fame.

It's that protection for the weak that needs to be removed, or negated. Shortening the time spent in the hospital helps to remove some of that protection, while increasing the amount of fame earned from successful attacks negates the time spent waiting for victims to get out of the hospital.

--

Of the proposed changes that have been listed so far, I like the majority of what Ross put on the table, though I don't really see the point of an automatic abortion after 9 days.

I do agree that the attack limit should be removed, I would rather see it gone from scandals, and perhaps still around for people not in scandals, to prevent player vs player griefing.

To me what scandals really come down to, is how much someone is willing to invest into playing. If someone just logs on for an hour or two, I really don't want them in a scandalous studio, as they would just be a liability.

Finally, to address an issue I am Kendy brought up, perhaps negative personal fame could slowly build back up to 0 over time (days-weeks), to at least give the possiblity of earning the 120 Fame achievement for more people who were ill-prepared when they first entered a scandal.

Acacia

12-10-2009, 09:56 AM

@Hiro : the abortion after 9 days would be kind of an equivalent to real life birth... so i think that will be a good idea.

@Nata : I like the idea of travelling taking some time so you cannot fly in and fly out of a city in seconds ..... The implementation of some kind of delay would make hiding in higher cities more costly and would also mimic real life where you have to wait endlessly at airports. The delays should be longer on the cheap airline. And you should be able to attack and defend when waiting for the plane. A 1 or 2 minute delay could change the tactics of hiding a lot.

Psyche

12-10-2009, 10:58 AM

no!, not an other rule which makes it pointless to level, its allready an dissadvantage to level now that you only have 3 attacks on anyone thats below your level /1.35 what point is it to level to inferno and not be able to attack anyone more then 3 times, and now you wont even get any fame when you beat someone in a scandal? if someone wish they could stay level 1 and still be #1 PAD its fair that they can beat a level 1000 unlimited times then when they can only make 3 attacks back?

Advantages of leveling
Access to high level cities, with their weapons, items etc.
Easy hiding place that doesn't disrupt your game during scandal.
Massive amounts of hitpoints/health.
Massive amounts of cash from studio movies.
Massive amounts of cash from roulette.

Disadvantage
Can't slap noobs more than 3 times a day!

During a scandal you can gain a maximum of 9 fame per person, but more likely to be 6.
So that 60 fame gain from a ten person studio.
Might take some time but it still possible, but since they are hiding in high level cities, they will have plenty of time to spare.

I also agree a time delay during travel is a great idea

Ramirez

12-10-2009, 11:18 AM

A limit to where to fly during a scandal is not fair to other players.
If you are a strong player of level 90 with rank 25 in PAD you could complain about people hiding in Bogota. The same goes for people below 150 who complain about people hiding in Girlvana.
Now it is, that level 250+ players can stay in Purple and if they are strong enough be quite safe, because there are so few who can get there.

To make it fair to everyone, you should take all players who are involved in a scandal to Ponata, and disable the flights for them.
That would be fair to everyone.
If they need meds, drugs or specials they should use the item market.

Acacia

12-10-2009, 01:33 PM

flying delay should be implemented for everyone... not only during scandal. So low level can not escape quickly too. Kind of evens things out.

jessiebelle

12-10-2009, 02:25 PM

But I think more intimate studios where coordination and comradery are more prevelant is also an attractive option for people.

I'm sorry but Sin-Sational has more then 10 or even your suggested 5 members and we share a strong camaraderie and when we were attacking other studios we had a coordinated effort in our attacks. Its always easy to coordinate an attack its the scrambling to coordinate a defense that is a real bitch to do.

And to Jessie if the proposed changes are in place i am sure the studios will grow again, at the moment it is stupid to have a scandalous studio with more than 12 people because its impossible to defend. If the defense is not so easy anymore the balance would switch to the higher money and fame gain in a larger studio.

I disagree, with the proposed changes of making things more expensive but not raising the minimum needed or as someone who runs a peaceful studio suggested lowering the minimum to five members then then it makes more sense to keep running a tiny studio with super strong members then a larger one simply because of the costs.

However if the minimum members required to start a scandal I suggested is implemented then some of the other proposed changes won't be necessary. With 20 members if 10 are hiding/camping in the hospital that still leaves 10 targets which would make things more interesting.

And Jessie, don't categorize all small studios into the same category that you just put Frenchcut in because that's who you're referring too. You know as well as I do that my studio isn't like that.

Actually that isn't true, when AD attacked Sin half their members were kidnapped or used in a negative way as a prostitute. So once again 5 active fighting and 5 untouchable. Same deal as with ™ except with that studio it was everyone pregnant instead of having their prostitution used.

So once again raise the minimum to 20 and half untouchable still means 10 targets.

A limit to where to fly during a scandal is not fair to other players.
If you are a strong player of level 90 with rank 25 in PAD you could complain about people hiding in Bogota. The same goes for people below 150 who complain about people hiding in Girlvana.
Now it is, that level 250+ players can stay in Purple and if they are strong enough be quite safe, because there are so few who can get there.

To make it fair to everyone, you should take all players who are involved in a scandal to Ponata, and disable the flights for them.
That would be fair to everyone.
If they need meds, drugs or specials they should use the item market.

Good points but then you are basically taking away any reason to level up again. If something like this is going to be done then we should do away with all the other cities and just make it so when you get to a certain level you can access new shops. But doing that takes out costs of airfare and use of sabotages.

I know at lower levels flying is cheaper but I can tell you that I won't play hit and run as it costs to much for me to fly back and forth at my level. Part of the reason I don't even bother looking at the hitman agency. It is rare that a bounty is high enough to make it worth my while to fly and take it. It's also why I spend extra in the item market when I need something because its cheaper for me to do instead of flying there and flying back so I don't have to worry about certain stronger members who shall remain nameless trying to rob me while I'm online.